The whole article is condescending. I'm sure it is well intended, but it certainly doesn't come out and recognize the human rights issues and the violence, intimidation, bullying, shaming, blaming, hatred which gays and transgendered have suffered and continue to suffer from the hands of some Christians, including Christian governments. It would help to have a clear 'this is wrong' instead of a sort of 'this doesn't work, afterall we want to convert them' attitude. How about, 'They are just fine as they are!'
To suggest that gays are being intolerant if they don't want to engage with people who invalidate their identity and have decided (for them!) that they should be celebate is ludicrous. This is an example of projection. Let's say that you are being very critical, you flip it and make the other person the critical one. That way you don't have to be aware of what you yourself are doing.
Homophobia and prejudice and hatred towards those who are different in their sexual identity is fading, I think in time the majority of churches will be 'gay friendly' you might say. I can't say that a church who still looks at them as being unaccaptable as they are is 'gay friendly'. There are plenty of churches who are no longer practice prejudice.
All you have to do is look at the hypocracy involved in the strong negative reaction to gay people compared to that of , say, divorced people. Jesus talked a great deal about divorce. You don't really see people getting all worked up about having divorced people in their churches, or people who are living together. That's because we don't have a societal prejudice against such. When society changes, the churches will follow. Too bad that the right wing churches couldn't lead-they always seem to be a decade or so behind. I went to Biola long long ago and they were always behind the times. I remember this one poor professor who got fired for being gay. How sad is that?
I'm the author of the book "Messy Grace" and the interviewee of this article, I would love to discuss your thoughts with you. I'm truly sorry if you were offended. That was not the intent in the least.
As one who was raised in the LGBT community and has many friends who identify as LGBT in some way (as well as my parents)---my goal isn't to condescend at all. I've had many LGBT people review the book (and articles like this one) and while they haven't agreed with me on all points, they haven't had the same reaction.
Please go to www.discoverychurch.com and email me. I would really love the chance to dialogue with you.
God bless and have a Happy New Year!
Anna is spot on - evangelical passive aggressive "love the sinner hate the sin" with an extra layer of deception. This entire approach is so manipulative that it would be insulting if tt wasn't so transparently absurd. There is the standard line about "belonging before believing" which boils down to - lure them in without fully disclosing that extent of just how incompatible being an out, non-self loathing gay person is with the hopes that they can be convinced to "give up the gay lifestyle" in order to be saved, which means total emotional and physical celibacy or marriage to a woman (and we know well those turn out). Even better, if the gay person is married, then divorce is required in order to be saved - talk about family values! I almost laughed when I read the advice about attending the wedding - I quote: .
"There might be a chance to share your faith with others at the wedding. Later, when the newlywed has a season of doubt or turmoil, you might be the person they turn to (giving you the chance to share Jesus"
This is almost creepy - attend a gay wedding where lots of other gays will be in the hopes that you can witness to them and convince them to again "abandon that gay lifestyle" or even better, the implication being that the gay couples marriage is doomed to fail so be there to swoop in when they are most vulnerable in the hopes that you can "sway" one or both of them to becoming a self-loathing re-closet case. Christians - you shall know them by their love!!! Man that is some twisted love...
I'm saddened by what I read in etseq's comments. I have a dear friend who's daughter has decided she was really meant to be a boy. My friend has elected to facilitate transgender transformation for her daughter in full force and has chosen to remove anyone from her life that doesn't support her "son's" decision. I have struggled to present the truth of God's word without acting in a quasi-enforcer role. I too sin and would not condemn my loved ones because of their sin. I don't approach the subject with her.... I don't "brow beat" her with the Bible. I nod compassionately as the struggles their family encounters are real... and painful. But when asked what I think... I speak the truth of Christ which defines LGBT sexuality as sin. Because I have held firm that God's word is the truth, I am seeing... and mourning the dwindling of a decades long friendship. Etseq's comments discourage me further.... because they underscore what I observe in my friend and her daughter (son)... their view is anything short of complete and utter acceptance that LGBT sexuality and lifestyle is fine and absolutely completely ok....equates to hate and judgement. There is no middle ground. Etseq's remarks mirror that of the LGBT community that I have met through my friend. Unless you're "for" LGBT.... you are the enemy. Sharing God's word.... if that word speaks against LGBT sexuality.... is hate. No exceptions. Speaking God's word equates to hate. With that mentality.... how does a Christian who hates sin but loves sinners (in no small part because I happen to BE one)... find middle ground, commonality, and exchange of lovingness with others who are in the LGBT community? It's truly sad.
Caleb Kaltenbach is correct that it is God who changes anyone's heart, but his claim that his responsibility is therefore to just "love people, make friends and journey with them" really appalled me. Mr. Kaltenbach seems to have forgotten that Jesus' last command to his believers was to "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel and make disciples." His entire interview was geared to the same "Just love us!" line that I and many other believers received when testifying at our state legislature's committee hearing on LGBT issues last year. In between their screaming for us to show more love and acceptance, they exhibited plenty of gross intolerance and hatred for those sharing opposing views on the decision to be made by the committee. However well Mr. Kaltenbach has learned to deal with his unusual family background, he's incredibly wrong on several other key points as well. I won't be able to recommend his book, but I know that God will use him as he strives to help other believers on this very difficult issue.
Have you read my book? I'm guessing you haven't so how could you not recommend it? I take an orthodox stance on sexuality throughout the book. It's endorsed by many including profs from Talbot, Dallas Seminary, the Gospel Coalition, SBC, etc.
But if you're that quick to judge I can see why you wouldn't like my book.
There's a difference between acceptance and approval--
-Acceptance: loving a person where they are (Matt 5:46-47; Lk 6:35)
-Approval: you can't support every life choice a person makes.
Praying for your tone & graciousness.
A lesbian couple asked me this question. Would God send someone to hell because they loved someone .My answer was no.They would wind up in hell because they rejected Jesus Christ as their Savior.With 1/2 of one percent of the body of Christ involved in evangelism the chances of most of America winding up in hell are grave.Read Ezek.9,13,Is.30,Gal1:8-9,1Pet.4:17.With some 70-80% of attendees of evangelical church's not BornAgain it's no wonder books written are soft on sin,huge on false teaching.Emergent church movement is flagrant rejection of the Word of God.Many emergent will hear these words Depart from me I never knew you.Matt 7:14-23
My daughter is gay and has a gay partner. My daughter in law makes the sign of the cross every time she walks by them and also won't allow her children to sit by or talk to them at our family gatherings. I asked her to leave our house last night because she was being rude, judgmental and unloving. She said she did not want her children around these people and took each child out of the house to tell them her thoughts on this. Her husband, my son also does not agree with her stance on this issue. I don't know how to deal with this in a way that won't negatively affect my 3 grandchildren, 3 boys, age 7, 10 and 14. Any thoughts and or scripture recommendations? My daughter in law goes to a Greek Orthadox Church and the rest of our family go to a non denomination Christian church
Thank you Rev Kaltenbach for responding to some comments. You're making a good start. But I encourage you to do some deeper thinking. Sin, for example. What sin in today's world is not directly connected to harm? We do ourselves and our faith an injustice when we insist on calling something sinful which does no harm to anyone. Remember long hair? Rock and roll? So also, the Christ-centered, life-time commitment of two mature adults to honor, fidelity and support does no harm to anyone--in fact it strengthens the walk of faith for the couple and brings blessings to the community in which they live and serve. We only harm ourselves and grieve the Holy Spirit when we call that sin.
There are several other aspects where you seem to be selling our faith short. I would hope you would be willing to wrestle with this. I am willing to listen. I would love to correspond.
Rev Clyde Baker
We don't get to choose what is or isn't sin! If you actually studied the bible you would know all of God's principles are timeless and never change. The worst kind of Christian is a leuke warm choose what suits me believer. For 6:9-11 declares all sexual deviants have no place in the kingdom of heaven. You're spewing dangerous deceitful lies in order to justify same sex marriage promoting spiritual death. We are made in God's image period and there is no room for homosexuality if Jesus is truly in your heart. Love the sinner hate the sin is the only biblically approved behavior. Stop referring to yourself as Rev it isn't fooling anyone.
Caleb, I don't need to read your book to see that your efforts to encourage gay people into Christ's bosom is most probably an example of the age-old shyster traveling preacher act. I'd forgive you for that more quickly if the ancient text that you're capitalizing on (hopefully it's simply that and not some personal contempt) didn't so completely shame and make filth of those who are homosexual. . It would be harmless if you were not selling spiritual poisoning to desperate LGBT children. My only relief is that your book is probably barely seen by them, and is mostly (spottily) read by rich straight housewives. The LGBTQ community has suffered enough slobber alresdy, make your money writing earnestly.
Seriously? You attend a state legislature committee on LGBT issues (to deny and block them, I'm sure) and you have the audacity to wonder why you are labelled as the enemy?
Belief is one thing, but when you petition the government to deny rights and benefits to people who live outside the rules of your religion then you are no better than the Taliban.
Do you have an email address to submit heartfelt quieations on this subject?
I know that I'm young (16), and I don't know much, but I believe that we should love people and get to know them better instead of labeling them. I met the sweetest person over the internet who has just been a shine to my day every day. I light up whenever I receive a text from him. He told me earlier that his family rejected him for coming out of the closet. His whole story was heartbreaking. I knew I needed to be there for him. So I'm still treating him the same way I did before I knew about his sexuality. He has been so grateful for my kindness and we enjoy every moment together.
I think that instead of quoting scriptures when a person comes out to us, the best way that we can represent Jesus Christ is to be kind and listen to them. Forcing the Bible on them and rejecting them are two of the main reasons why they are so afraid of us. We may not be able to change their minds, but that was never our job in the first place. Our mission is to show them the same love that Jesus showed to us. He never condemns us for what we do or what we think. He loves us no matter what. The Bible says that homosexuality is wrong, and whatever is in our God's Holy Word is true and will remain true. But that doesn't mean that we should completely shut someone out because they are a homosexual. We love because He loved us first.
I really hope I don't offend anyone. I hate starting fights. But I've been wrestling with this issue for a long time and I don't want to take action in an aggressive or mean way. I respect you all and your beliefs and this is mine.
Tohru, you are quite wise for only being 16! The way you are responding to your friend on the Internet is the way Jesus responded to everyone He came in contact with. He loved people and got to know them, despite behaviors in their lives that He didn't endorse. He listened to them and spoke compassionately, respecting their dignity as human beings that He had created. When He spoke, it was with both grace AND truth. As followers of Jesus, we represent Him well by imitating Him!
Caleb, thank you so much for sharing your own experiences. What you have to say holds a lot of weight coming from your background. I agree that our foundational identity is not in our sexual orientation- we are SO much more than that! It is indeed time for Christians to “own” the issue of homosexuality by stopping the assumptions and caring about the person - as a person - who is inherently valuable, thoughtfully and lovingly made in the image of God.
Your comment has really been insightful. And as a Christian who's trying to dig deeper it's been hard on how to directly relate to gay men or lesbian women. And with your answer I'm put at peace and my heart feels the need to even love even more and abstain the hate. Love is the truest thing. It's the beginning to developing and leaving a long lasting imprint that can improve, transform or aid. I'm going to lead in peace and love with the truth of God and life of Jesus being the exemplary. That's what needed today on this Earth, across every corner. I pray I learn to love, rebuke hate and fear...and so to you
With peace and love, a growing Christian
Thank you so much for that comment! Jesus spent time with all kinds of people who were different. Not just other Christians. He loves them just as much as He loves us. God is no respecter of persons. And He calls us to be the same way. It breaks my heart though that a lot of the LGBTQ community hates us. They are afraid of us because they know that most Christians condemn them for what they do, and try to force them to stop and convert them to Christianity. That's kind of how we got our reputation as a homophobic faith. But God said in His Word that our job is only to SHARE Christ, as well as the Good News of salvation, and most importantly the love that He showed to everyone while He was on Earth, regardless of sexual orientation or lifestyle. Whoever wants to to actually receive Christ will know it in their hearts and seize the opportunity. And if they reject it, well, that's their choice, too. We're not supposed to try and change their minds. But maybe if we tried a different approach instead of attacking them, they wouldn't dread us so much.
I really hope that I don't seem like I'm trying to be a know-it-all (I mean really, I haven't even finished Highschool! I'm only 10th grade! Lol) but I firmly believe this is the truth. Jesus is really sad when we are harsh and hateful and mean to people. It doesn't matter what they're doing in their lives. Nothing justifies cruelty. But I'm not trying to force anyone to believe EXACTLY what I do. Again, that's completely up to you guys. I totally respect everyone else's opinions and you all have the right to give them. :)
I'm not militant or hateful toward homosexuals, by why are we treating the sin of homosexuality with such a high degree of caution and sensitivity? Do we approach thievery, extortion, bribery, greed, adultery, rape or child abuse in such a manner as this? Have scores and score of books been written on "How to deal with an invitation to a bomb making class?" The bottom line is that homosexuality represents a gross abomination in the sight of God, and it is to be condemned to the same degree and with the same language employed in Scripture. Should a Christian attend a gay wedding ceremony? Must we spend gobs of energy and time discussing the proper Christian response to such an obvious matter as this? The answer is a resounding NO! Once again, I'm not advocating hate or scorn, as I believe God is calling all Christians to emulate his message , character and attributes, but there is now way of avoiding conflict when taking a stand for righteousness within the sphere of this fallen world. And it's certainly not the will of God for Billy and Johnny to snuggle comfortably on the couch at the home of Billy's Christian parents during the holidays, as if its "business as usual". Neither Billy or Johnny should ever feel comfortable about their sin, and as I see it, Billy should be welcome into his parents home, but not Johnny, and the reason for this should be graciously and biblically explained to both parties. When Jesus said He came not to bring peace on the earth but a sword, and to set a man at odds with the members of his household, He was talking about the high cost of discipleship, and of the natural division that will result from taking a stand for the will, way and standard of God.
Imagine how many kids over the years have killed themselves because righteous anger was the loudest voice in their heads at the bitter end.
You will never know the exact number because they never dared to step out of the closet, so you can at least count yourself successful for helping stop that nonsense. But, it still amounts to bloodshed.
There is no such thing as conditional compassion.
Woe unto you.
How do I serve as a missionary in my high school to the lgbtq community? Because just having a good relationship with them isn't going to make anything happen.
As a woman who was a non-Christian lesbian for over 30 years I found this article refreshing and exactly in-line with my experience to conversion. I sought a loving community that accepted my brokenness and found it with my lesbian sisters and gay brothers. I now find an unconditional love I never knew before with Christ and my fellow believers. I have been converted and am not the same person I was before...the last three years as a Christian have been the best of my life.
My prayer is for all, gay or whatever, to find this same acceptance through the love and sacrifice of Christ. He heals all our desires or confusion of the flesh and strengthens us. I look forward to reading your book so I can recommend it to friends. God bless you and your parents, they raised a fine young man. For those that think waving your banners at the pride marches as you scream how much of a sinner I am, search your heart and act in love...you did more against God than for Him and actually made me never want to know Jesus. He had to seek me out and convert me Himself and I praise Him everyday for setting me apart from my sinful nature so I could repent be and be made new.
For centuries predominant Christian thought on the issue of homosexuality has been blunt negation and hatred. For centuries, it was a crime to be openly homosexuality. If you came out of the closet, at least in medieval Europe, you would be burned at the stake. If you came out in any time period before the 1990's, you would most likely be socially ostracized. Now, predominant Western thought has taken a 180 degree spin, and now you have the same people who would a generation ago scream homophobic rhetoric talk in a tone with complete moderation. Now, we need to sympathize with them? The desire to appease all sides of the debate, and come across as a speaker for God. You know what I think? These Pastors have become weak in the face of societal change. Society changes, and immediately they change their gospel, which previously condemned homosexuality and homosexuals as people who will not inherit the kingdom of God. Now, they want us to accept of homosexuals as people. Weird, how that works. These same people believe morality to be objective, and yet their attitudes towards homosexuality change that instantaneously. I'm not necessarily referring to only Caleb when I speak of this. However, he is what I would call the moderate whose trying to appeal to everyone. It's PR move in order to appeal to bigots and tolerant people. However when he speaks out against homosexual acts and homosexual sexual relationships, he thinks that is "conviction" and "truth." This Pastor thinks he's speaking truth, when really he's just preaching from a book written by degenerates who had no knowledge of what ethics were. A "chosen people" who think everyone who doesn't believe in their God will go to hell and burn for an eternity. Placed their by the "loving" God. The same "truth" that thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old. The same "truth" that thinks a talking snake is the reason why humans wear clothes. Yeah, I take this "truth" with a grain of salt. It's nothing but outdated primitive superstition. This is "truth" to him. Sorry, it's stupidity and ignorance. Homophobia is a sign of degeneracy,and a sign that one probably has a lower than average IQ.
I have to mention this. The Bible is a book that actually called for the death by stoning of homosexuals in the Old Testament. I have to ask this Pastor. Are we able to call these practices and laws barbaric? Even though they are decreed by God himself? This is anything but loving towards homosexuals, and it's also Biblical. Homosexuals were put into the same boat as murderers and thieves in the Bible. Whenever homosexuality is mentioned. It's mentioned under a negative portrayal. Bionically, I have concluded that they should be treated as murderers are treated. By stoning. Am I wrong? If I'm wrong, is God wrong? There is a reason Christian societies have taken hundreds of years to affirm the right to live to homosexuals. It's because their Old Testament and New Testament(Paul said they wouldn't inherit the kingdom of God) condemn them as people, and them to repress all sexual desire, or risk divine consequence. We need to give credit where credit is due. Logic and reason and empathy. We achieved equality for homosexuals in spite of the Bible, and not because of it. I hope the people on this comment thread realize how toxic the Bible is. Minnesota, your right to respond to Pastor Pete that way, but bionically, he's correct. Realize your condemnation of his righteousness is anti Biblical. I know you might want to view this through the lens of you being on the side of God, but you aren't. And the Laws in Leviticus prove that,
"bionically" should be biblical Correction error.
"and them" should be, and asks them
And the Laws in Leviticus prove that.
I can say out of all these comments that ‘True Believer’ is no better than the chrisitian version of the taliban and a cruel person. The reverend isn’t choosing what’s son and what’s not but choosing how to handle actions towards gay people and big necessarily biblically condoning it. True Belovsd is nothing but close to a terrorist type of thinking and is far from a Christian.
Hello Pastor Kaltenbach,
I hope and pray that you are doing well. It takes a man of God to write and be steadfast with the truth of the word of God. Keep up the good work. God never said that it would be easy, right? I commend you for writing on such a difficult subject. Again, it takes a follower of Jesus Christ to discern truth. May the Lord continue to bless you mightily.
Just an observation. I am writing my doctoral dissertation on servant leadership inclusiveness in light of the LGBT agenda. It presents a true dilemma. The problem that I have is that most sinful behavior is recognized by the sinner as such: Sinful. So many gays and lesbians simply do not believe that they are wrong in any way, or that what they do is sinful in God's eyes just as any other sin. Many tend to rationalize it away or sweep it under the rug, using the tired, old "I was born that way" nonsense. If the LGBT Christian is truly remorseful for their sin, they will no longer be a practicing homosexual. They will embrace celibacy and not engage in their sin. Their sin is no worse than any other sin, it is just that most don't want to call it what it is and always has been, sin.
Dear Caleb, I really appreciated the article and plan to read your book. My little sister is a lesbian and getting married this summer. We have always been very close, and is my best friend. When she came out to me, it hurt our relationship because I believe homosexuality to be a sin, and it was a surprise to her that I didn’t change my beliefs because of my relation with her. Honestly I wish I could. I love my sister so much, and I don’t totaly understand this one, I’m just trusting that God is good even when I don’t understand Him. Anyways, I’ve made a lot of missteps with my sister, and I feel so clumsy in how to love her well without compromising my faith. After a lot of prayer and discernment I realized I couldn’t attend her wedding but I’m devastated and so saddened at the relational cost. Can you advise on how to love her well? It might be t I late. I just haven’t heard many conservative Christians speak with such a loving perspective as you did in the article. Thanks
Sarah, your comment moved me, as I too am brokenhearted over my 17 yr.old niece who just 'came out' . Her parents are angry that my husband and I believe that homosexuality is a sin, even though we have expressed our love for her no matter what she does! If the day ever comes that she get's 'married', I know that I cannot attend the wedding either. I feel so bad for you and your sister. I also feel 'clumsy' about how to move forward in my relationship with my niece and her parents. Caleb, I just bought your book (along with 4 others on the same topic!) and look forward to reading about your unique perspective on this issue. God Bless us all as we navigate these tricky situations and trust in His Word. Thanks!
We are living in fallen world. All mankind deals with some type of sin and fallenness. Good shows His attitude toward the lost in three stories in Luke 15. Jesus did not come into the world to condemn anyone, but motivated by incredible love, to reconcile us back to a love relationship with God by taking upon Himself the punishment for all sin, which happened upon the cross. He died, to pay the penalty of all sin which is death for all mankind, and when He rose from the dead 3 days later He won the victory over every sin and all of our ultimate enemy...death. If Jesus did not rise, the Bible states that Christianity would be foolish.
People in their short life can form opinions, but those opinions will die right along with them. There are only 2 eternal things in this world, a person's soul and the inspired God breathed word of God.
Nobody has to believe in God. The fallenness I dealt with in my life included many different sinful behaviors, including, homosexuality which is not an identity but a fallen sinful Behavior.... When Jesus started His ministry He said He was proclaiming good news, that His heart was to heal the brokenhearted, and to set captives free.
I could care less about the opinions I or anyone else comes to believe in one short life time. There is spiritual activity going on all around us, there is an enemy of man, the fallen angel Lucifer who loves to lie,steal,kill and destroy, just look around..I am so thankful that I tasted and saw that God is good and love, and so kind. His loving Holy Spirit has opened my eyes to no longer be blind to the good news of the finished work of Jesus in His sacrificial death on the cross,burial and Resurrection and how that relates to me personally. I am a new creation , alive with hope for today and eternal hope....I could go on and on about how good God is but I will end my 2 cents with 1 verse from (Romans 2:4) Or do you despise The Riches of his goodness, forbearance, and long-suffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
So many of us Christians have misrepresented the goodness, kindness and holy Majesty of our loving Lord. Any who do not know Him, I hope you call out to Him someday, He longs to be gracious to you also!!!! Humble yourself, draw near to God and He will draw near to you. .... God resists the proud, He gives grace to the humble. Peace, hope and love are available to whosoever chooses, God will not override free will. Repentance is having a change of heart and mind towards what God calls sin, and turning to God who loves you more than you can ever fully comprehend until we see Him face to face when this short life is over.
the word tells us that people will turn to false prophets that speak on lies so that
Their hearts desire will be justified. The word also tells us to love the sinner not the sin.
It also tells us that we battle NOT against flesh and blood but against principalities.
The word also tells us that the devil is prince of this earth so naturally when we stand for
Gods truth we are persecuted or labeled as bigots or being judgmental. I struggle with this but
My future in laws are gay so I’ve had to learn to fight (learn the word) in order to know where to stand when it comes to my relationship with Christ and them (how to learn to glorify God and not man). One thing I take away from this post is that man kind will begin to shun Christians (duh) in the attempt to shut out the word.(truth) be not discouraged because the word tells us we will have tribulations in this life time. Christ was persecuted and so will those who follow Him. With all that being said love is a commandment, and Jesus hung with the sinnners. For those of you who know, God is NOT a confusing God - stop confusing Him with man- learn the word - it’s NOT going to change. I am a sinner, I just sinned while writing this post (please get my drift here I’m not perfect) in fact, no sin is greater than another, but we can not justify sin, that is when we as “Christians” begin to let go of the truth. We should strive for better, CONSTANTLY, we can not be lukewarm. Yo I’m just rambling now -but all I’m saying is I have love for anyone (as should any Christian because if you don’t then you DONT know God) , but the word is the word.
I definitely appreciate your sentiment in writting this article. It helped me realize some of the misunderstandings that some straight christians might have about the LGBT+ community. For example, your question to your mom, asking why she still identifies as lesbian if she doesn't have sex anymore. It honestly never occurred to me that some people would view same sex relationships as primarily sexual in nature. Personally, I really don't have any desire for sex with men or women, but I do want to be in a relationship with a girl, because that just feels right. I just get warm fuzzy feelings when I think about it. So, same sex relationships are the same as opposite sex relationships in that sex can be a part of them, but the main part of the relationship is love. I personally have a hard time understanding why you or God would think that is wrong
But I do understand that you are trying to be the best person you can be, as we all are.
The word is enough and true my brothers and sisters. Do not doubt it or equivocate on it. Love the sinner, hate the sin, including your own and repent constantly and sincerely as a humble way of life. But do not bear false witness on the word as you know better, and our God deserves no such scrutiny!
Jude says to "contend earnestly for the faith." and goes on to speak candidly of sexual sin. He does not waver in what he speaks. I believe Jesus would have us love the gay person, but He would not neglect an opportunity to tell them to repent, "go and sin no more" and to be careful not to sin again, because a worse thing could happen to them. I believe many Christians are fed up with the militant gays, not the ones who are hurting and just want to be loved. It's important that they understand that we don't agree with their choice, but equally important that we let them know that we value them and that God wants the best for them. What isn't addressed is that we have blood on our hands if we're afraid of being called homophobic, and don't speak the truth. But as Paul said, "Speak the truth in love."
just reading this comments section is a perfect representation of how the vast majority, in the church, feels about the issue...
All this is interesting but does not solve my diemma. My grandaughter is gay and has known her partner since she was 11. When I found out I knew this would be a dilemma if they would decide to marry. As a Christian I do not believe in the gay life style and have often said I would accept a ceremony with another name and same rights as marriage but believe the definition of marriage should not be changed I have never discussed my feelings on this with my grandchildren because we live far away and I have only seen them about 10 times.even though they are in their late 20's. However Im sure they know that I am a serious Christian.
They now are planning to marry and I dont know what to do. To my friends I immediately said that I could not attend the wedding without being a hypocrite and did not know how to tell them.
I have met my granddaughters partner and spent a whole day with them. We had a lovely time (surprizingly because they were in their early 20's and Im in my 70's. I love them both and know it would hurt my granddaughter very much not to attend.
Recently I talked to a friend who told me how much it hurt her for her brother not to attend her wedding (for other reasons). She then asked me 'what would Jesus do' This really made me think. I also realized that I did not seek the Lords advice and just assumed I should not go. I am now leaning towards going but another friend suggested that I still must let them know that I do not approve of their lifestyle. All this is hard for me as I do love them BOTH (i even send her partner Christmas gifts when I send one to my granddaughter. All I do know is that I must let them know that even with my beliefs I still love them very much. Please pray for wisdom for me in this decision.
Dear Caleb Kaltenbach,
I myself am a Christian but are you familiar with a man named Rick Warren? Because I have just one huge question for you regarding to him, will religious freedom be the civil-rights issue of the next decade?
You have some good points. A declared Homosexual person cannot of their own volition become a heterosexual BUT can by the power of Christ abstain from the behavior and lifestyle to live a pure holy life. The power of Christ if allowed in their life to change and function can bring fullness of joy and purity. Freedom from pornography and sexual addiction of any type is the best way with constant pure thoughts. The homosexual lifestyle and behavior has its foundation much in pornography. If someone has the tendency they have NOT sinned are are NOT condemned. They must live life in Christ to have a new identity. There is NO such thing as being Christian and being gay. If you are in Christ You are NO LONGER gay even with the tendencies but a new person. If later on they become hetersexual and marry that is up to God.
Now I know a lot of people are going to jump up and down and get all over me for this; but sometimes love has to be tough. There's no excuse to condone sin and i don't care who's sin it is, or what sin it is. Discipleship has a price. People have (and in some places today still do) lay down their lives for the sake of the Kingdom. And yes, the truth brings division. That's part of life.
Now this whole "gay Christian / remain celibate" thing I find an absolute farce because it's made on an assumption that people can't change. People change all the time and people's "orientations" change too. (Change your thought process, you change your behavior.) Now it's not usually something that happens overnight; especially if someone is entrenched in a particular ideology. Yet it does happen and more often than people with an agenda would be willing to admit. In a good percent of cases it happens without any intervention and "no body ever knew".
And here is another idea I think is a misperception. I've heard in many places about accepting the homosexual as a whole person; yet how many times to you see the "orientation" itself becomes an identity crisis obsessed over by the homosexual person? Individuals of certain ethnic minorities have the same problem. They are all caught up in "identity politics". Your not "black" or "gay" or even gender orientated before you are a human being. None of these surface factors should be seen as more important than the totality of what is a human being and what does it mean to be created in the image of God / accountable to the Entity that created you? That's the big picture that all of humanity faces.
Now the whole question of "What would Jesus do?" Well, I think we got some pretty good examples in the Bible. Yes, Jesus "sat down with tax collectors and sinners"; yet if you look at the context of all of every single one of those interactions - none of them - either of the people in those categories that invited him, or Jesus himself ever condoned or ignored the sin.
Were there places, situations or even people Jesus avoided for the sake of understanding, "There's certain things I don't want in my head." and / or "There are potential dangers I'm not going to put myself in." and / or "There are things I don't want it to appear by my presence that I condone." Yes, there were. He probably never went in a Roman bath house; or at least not the sordid ones and I'm sure he never walked into a brothel either. There were plenty of those in the ancient world too. There are events recorded in the Scripture where Jesus didn't "stick around" because he knew there were people who meant him harm. So although Paul does say "All things are lawful for me ...." But that doesn't mean it's a good idea! And most importantly "I will not be a slave to anything."
And Yes there were instances when people with an agenda tried to set others up, yet notice too what Jesus did in those circumstances. He turned right around to the deceptive individuals and pointed their sin out to them.
Ya know, people who are "accepting of everyone" don't get crucified!
I’m a gay person and this is painful to read, but I so appreciate the honesty and I appreciate that you all are trying hard to be good people and don’t want to hurt anyone. I know it takes a long time to untangle a deep seated belief that has been there for so long and it’s a scary thing to do. Maybe you worry that if you change that belief, it would call into question many other beliefs and then pretty soon, your whole foundation is ripped from underneath you. That would be scary. But courage is bravery in the face of fear and I believe your Christian foundation will be just as strong if not stronger if you display that courage and if you have enough faith in the core of your religion to know that you can look deeply within it without having it implode. I believe there is a way you can change your belief about homosexuality and still maintain all your others. Some bits of the Bible are a bit outdated - mixing fabrics, eating shellfish, eating pork etc - reason being that at the time, those things posed a practical threat. Maybe at the time, the world needed more people so the idea of a marriage without children could be threatening to the future of the world. We’re now at a time where the world is overpopulated actually, and we’re also at a time where gay marriages can yield children. A lot has changed. The basic principals of not lying, cheating, stealing, killing, etc - the golden rule of treating people how you’d want to be treated - etc those are the principals that were meant to stay - the guidance around them just helped everyone survive and they can be slightly re-interpreted as the world changes over long periods of time. The core though - the basic principals - those were created to withstand any change and they should.
I’ll tell you as a gay person, I can’t go my life without love. I’d kill myself. Most people would. Love is everything. I can’t be in love with someone of the opposite sex the way you can’t be in love with someone of the same sex. I could try and convince you and threaten your life and your afterlife - but it wouldn’t make you in love with someone of the same sex. Could you fake it? For a little while, sure - but then you’re either having an affair later which involves lying and cheating and intentional deception on top of homosexuality, or you’re living without ever being in love. The options here are unbearable. Please genuinely close your eyes and imagine yourself in our shoes. Imagine the person you’ve loved most in your life - someone who loved you back maybe - someone who made you better and whom you made better - pure and good love, now imagine you were told you’d go to hell and betray God and your family if you continued to love him/her. Imagine the only way you could be a good person is if you only had sex with and married someone of the same sex. Or if you never had a relationship at all. Don’t put people in that position - don’t make them choose between life and love, and support your loved ones who feel they’ve had to. They need you badly. Let’s all get together and put our energy towards standing up against real evil - hatred. There’s a lot of it in the world. I feel pretty strongly that God knows the only way to combat hate is to promote love, and that love is not something to fight against.
Here's the biggest problem we have ... there is no such thing as "being gay". Gay is a term used by the left to rationalize homosexual behavior. It's a calmer word the left uses to make it seem normal and innocuous. When you hear the word "gay" you don't hear the word "homosexual", so it seems nicer. It's the same way the left uses "pro-choice" instead of "abortion". Being "pro-choice" and "gay" doesn't sound harsh and intolerant. Using those terms make people feel okay about doing something wrong. And it's become so strong they actually believe something wrong is not wrong any longer. We can't get caught up in using those terms or we fall into the trap of compromise. If we even use those terms we give credence and legitimacy to them. God didn't, doesn't, and will never create "gay" people. So we shouldn't use that term because it's a compromise.
However, we also shouldn't condemn. We should just share the Gospel because that's all we're supposed to do. We're not supposed to change people. That's God's job, and we're not God. But we cannot tolerate the hatred these radical groups like the LGBTQ use. They are the intolerant ones. They are the hateful ones. We just share the gospel and allow God to use His Holy Spirit to convict unsaved people. And anyone who openly and proudly practices homosexual behavior is unsaved. A true believer would NEVER openly and proudly practice this behavior. A true believer will can secretly practice this behavior, but will be miserable in their sin, just like any truly born again believer is miserable in our sin.
As believers we are most miserable when we are living in sin. We're NEVER open and proud about it because we know in our hearts that it's wrong. So we should avoid condemning any individual sin and just share the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The Gospel saves and changes lives, not us. But we should NEVER condone evil in any way.
Forsaking *all* I follow Christ. Whatever it is, I love Jesus more. To live....is Christ. Identity is no longer in myself . It’s in Christ. I am found in Him. My life is not me, it’s Christ, everyday. My life is worship to Him. Really love Him and obey His commands w His help. That’s the cost of being a disciple folks...
I AGREE with the author Caleb. The issue is ones Spiritual nature. I always tell people, “It’s a Spiritual thang, you wouldn’t understand unless you’ve been Born Again “. Everything that this man says and anyone else, is going to irritate you because it goes against the grain of what you want you want to do. In the meantime, it’s up to us Christians to love you and any other sinner, lier, adulterer, theif, etc......unconditionally whether you surrender your life to Christ or no!
God Bless You❤️
I appreciate this conversation- it sounds like an interesting read. As a Christian, I struggle with finding the balance between my spiritual beliefs and demonstrating love. I have friends who are gay, and I love them for who they are inside- not their gender expression or sexual orientation. It's unfortunate that if you are not affirming, then you are considered small minded, hateful, prejudiced, and homophobic. I chose not to share my beliefs outwardly because I don't want to hurt others or be hurt for my own beliefs. I have to lie about my religious beliefs at work (and I have been confronted , most recently for forgetting that I had poured my morning coffee in a mug with a Bible verse and then took it to work) because if I dont, then I will be fired. I think that I only truly discuss it with maybe 2-3 other people. I wish that there could be a balance. There are so many beliefs in the world. Trying to force one on everyone isn't helpful. I try to think of whether it will be more harmful than helpful. Contributing to someone's despair, depression, and possible suicide is never worth it. I may not always be in agreement, but I still want to show love. It's sad when any group is protested, called names, and abused.
E, I would highly suggest that you find a way to leave your place of employment. It sounds like you’re compromising out of fear. What does Jesus say will happen if we deny him? May we you’re worried that you won’t find another job? Or that you’ll lose your friends? Or even be harassed? So instead you’re living in fear. It’s not the right way to live. You’re gong to realize you’re not gaining anything by staying in that workplace or spending time with those friends.
If one is not following in God's true ways, the sin is sin. Man just wants it his way, not God's way.
(Part 1/3) "What happens if our “love” is not accepted at all because we still hold to truth? What would you say to an LGBTQ person who argues that “acceptance but not approval” is not actually love? Isn’t that the direction society is moving, that anything short of full approval is actually bigotry?"
The interviewer is dead on with this. Even in the two years since this article was written and three since "Messy Grace" was published, it has become more a more political and polarized issue. As a 21 year old Christian, I feel this wholeheartedly. I recently did a 7 month stint in LA and this is especially true in LA that if you're not for you're automatically a bigot and labeled simple minded.
Yet still, in the midst of all this choosing sides, I have become obsessed with this idea of keeping my conviction yet being still loving...I don't know if they're just silent or people my age really just don't share the same stance on this issue...because I've literally met thousands of people my age...and haven't found one yet who shares my beliefs in this to love the sinner but hate the sin in regards to homosexuality...not one.
To be quite frank and honest, I haven't really found compelling arguments against homosexuality in regards to the original translations of the Bible...let's say, the Bible was perfectly translated and the verses that contain references to homosexual behaviors mean just that (a man having sex with another man). To be honest, from my research, even now, the Bible doesn't seem explicitly say anything about homosexuality in regards to a loving relationship...but one could refute this in saying sex is an integral part of a marriage relationship...it really isn’t as polar of an issue as it’s made out to be...
In response to the question, "How Should Christians Respond to Gay Friends or Family Members?" I think Rev. Dr. William J. Barber, II said it well on October 12, 2017. I'll paraphrase below as he listed a number of values that must be supported.
All moral people, regardless of religious beliefs, must support LGBTQ rights.
Bishop John Shelby Spong also put it well when he said, "I will no longer engage the biblical ignorance that emanates from so many right-wing Christians about how the Bible condemns homosexuality, as if that point of view still has any credibility."
Teco, by saying the following, 'I have a dear friend who's daughter has decided she was really meant to be a boy. My friend has elected to facilitate transgender transformation for her daughter in full force and has chosen to remove anyone from her life that doesn't support her "son's" decision.' you have invalidated your friend's son's gender thrice.
First, you referred to the child as your friend's "daughter" even though they are a boy. Secondly, you said, "decided she was really meant to be a boy." No one decides on their gender, if this person says he is a boy, he is a boy. Thirdly, you put the word son in quotation marks which implies that he isn't really your friend's son.
I'm glad that your friend is cutting negativity out of her life in order to protect her son. Too many trans people encounter ridicule, hatred, and violence. Your friend seems like a great parent and I hope that you learn how to be a better ally to her son.
I am a young 20 year old bisexual girl who is cathholic..I have had not even realised my sexuality until I realised I was in love with my best friend whom I had known for five years and she could not love me in the same way..if it was a choice to change my orientation I would have done in that moment..to "turn off" ones love and emotions..passion for someone..it was painful for me as a young teenager being in a church telling me that my desires,love and affections towards my best friend was wrong..that Jesus would not approve love between two people..passion and desire in marriage between two people who happen to be both male or female or non binary even..was hell for me.That if I fell in love with a woman now I would not be able to marry before the God that loves me and have his approval..who gave me these emotions and desires..love is not bad and God is love..and so my romantic love for my best friend was not bad...it hurt as any unrequited love would. To hate a part of who you are is to hate God as he created us perfect in his image..if I accept my bisexuality I accept Gods plan because he made me this way. I didnt learn this "behaviour" or even known what it was called..I felt it. When I called myself bisexual it felt right and good..I felt the holy spirit in me saying it is okay..true love makes you happy and harms none so how can love between two people be bad? Gender doesnt matter to me..our souls have no gender without a body as our souls and holy spirit are part of God and God is both man and woman..we are created in his image. Man and woman are created from his image. So he and she is both..and not seperate..we fall in love with the soul,become one in flesh and have God in our lives to have a happy healthy romantic relationship. God's plan is for us to be happy and find real true love in Him and in the world.
I scrolled to the bottom after reading (true believer's) words. Personally, I plan to read the book and for a few years, have wrestled with how to best be a minister to many nobody else will give the time of day. This was a long while before my daughter, who lost her mom way too soon, told me about her life choice of a relationship with another woman. Was I a bit shocked? Yes I was. Do I love her no matter what? Yes I do. Have I embraced her with love of a father...myself...and her Heavenly Father? Yes I have. Many of the self proclaimed Christians I know are the ones emptying the pews in churches because of our judgmental ways and use of the bible as our weapon of choice to condemn others, usually while engaging in our own sin. Anyway, most of the back and forth here is very adult like and actually gives hope that true men and women after God's heart are capable of love for others; but, much of it is nothing more than the junk we can find on any social media feed. Thanks for the book. I look forward to reading it.
There is a balance here between every person who commented above; We can be right with God, love God, love Christ, follow His ways alone and still love other people who sin differently than we do. I don't care if they sleep with the same sex, or use drugs, or have committed theft or abuse their child; each deserves love and forgiveness.
I am no better, although some days I'd like to believe that because I am a good person, or because I pay my taxes and work hard or because I'm a good mother, that I'm somehow less in need of saving.. but that is completely untrue. I have sinful thoughts every day, and I ask God for forgiveness every day.
Yes, love the sinner, hate the sin. I can love others and not agree with their decisions, which goes for every single person you and I both associate with, Christians or not. Just be kind and quit worrying about others' heart towards God. Pray for them, but let God do the work He does so well without interfering in His plan. Witness but don't judge.
The Bible instructs, love your neighbor as yourself. Whether you agree with them or not, like them or not.. it's not important. What really makes you more Christ-like is to love without judgment. Try it.. you'll be surprised by how many blessings come as a matter of seeking Christ first above all else.
Christians shouldn't have gay friends. Christians need to stick with legitimate Christian friends. Gay "friends" will influence Christians to turn their back on God and the gospel COMPLETELY and not only accept THEIR lifestyle but LIVE it. Just look at how twisted Lisa Whelchel's thinking has become as a so-called Christian having gay friends in her circle. These are 2015 quotes from her below.
Lisa Whelchel pro gay quotes: 1.“Born differently, cuz’ even that you have to be careful with, saying choose differently. That’s an electric rod right there. I’m sorry about that, and I’m sad for that… because that is, of course, not at all what Jesus taught. (Jesus) taught acceptance and love and grace. I’m sad that (being antigay) is the stigma that Christians have deserved, unfortunately.”
2.“There are some very loud voices that wear the ‘one way Jesus’ t-shirts and point fingers.” “Sadly, that is the voice and that is the poster child for christianity and the unacceptance of people that choose differently.”
3.“My friends have been a variety of sexual orientations since I was little,” she says.
The truly sad thing is she isn't referring to hateful racist fake Alt Right Christians. She's including racially harmonious God-fearing Christians of all colors who don't hate gay people but simply do not agree with their lifestyle because it goes against God, the gospel and the teachings of Christ.
She ha obvious;y been WRONGFULLY influenced by her gay "friends" and shuns her own Christian brothers and sisters for following God's commandments She can no longer discern between right and wrong falsely claiming that gays are 'born that way.' True Christians know this is a lie straight from the pit of hell.
We as TRUE loving Christians CANNOT afford to put darkness for light, light for darkness, good for evil, evil for good, bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter as Lisa is doing. In the end, her gay friends will ask her why she REFUSED to tell them the truth in love instead of going along to get along. It's either God or gays. Can't have it both ways.
How can we get ANYBODY saved if we tickle their ears telling them what they want to hear? All because we FEAR persecution. All who live Godly in Christ Jesus SHALL be persecuted. I'd rather be persecuted for teaching the truth in love now than lose my soul trying to gain the whole world. Sister Lisa has either forgotten this or has never been taught this truth.
Pray for Lisa and for all the lost gay souls she is misleading. A real friend cares enough to gently warn those who are in trouble. Faithful are the wounds of a friend. DECEITFUL are the kisses of an enemy. Deceit does not get anyone through the gates of Heaven I'm sorry to say.
Another pro gay anti Christian quote from Lisa Whelchel: 4.But Whelchel dispelled many of those rumors that she’s antigay in recent interview for The Justin Root Show. In the 22 minute interview, Whelchel spoke honestly about her religion and antigay Christians – an “unfortunate” stigma they’ve earned “with good reason,” she says.
I know that there is a lot of controversy over this topic, and I indeed as a 13-year old am suffering from anguish because the Holy Spirit is guiding me to help a few LGBT friends. I think the main thing that bothered me on this comments thread was the hate. When we are to correct each other, just like 2 timothy 2:23-26 says. What I see a lot happening is people trying to correct each other, just to be right. I think we should focus on the issue at hand, and make sure that we are right with God and our facts come from Him, so we aren't being hypocrites.
I am 15 year old boy. I have struggled with gay attractions since I can remember. It started at a very early age for me. However at the time I wasn't aware of what homosexuality was and I brushed it off. But as I progressed and went through I noticed what I was. I felt the gay feeling inside me. Now to be honest this hurts me alot to say but my parents will more than likely hate me for the rest of my life if I ever came out. I came across this article after over months of research for hope. My hope is that god will accept me in the afterlife.It hurts knowing a mothers love wont last forever. Without love I would kill myself. It gets very lonely. And reading how god describes gay people makes me even more depressed. Knowing that if I find a man that I love and one day die god will seperate our two souls or even worse put us in hell. Its hard to imagine that. Crying every night because you want to be with a man and have a healthy life when you get older but in the end you burn in hell. And knowing that when your in hell your pretty much doomed and there is no hope and YOU are now a forever sinner buring with the one you love until god completly boils us into the lake of fire. The love we had will be separated and no more. Thats sad. Horrible. Horrific. I want to be in a relationship and have kids when I get older. Maybe even have a farm behind my house? It sounds crazy to me because I know god won't accept my gay relationship. Thats why I locked myself. Locked my mind in a place that tells me I have to go though my life alone and hopefully god will open the gated to heaven for me.
The pain I feel from knowing I will have to go through my life alone is saddening. I can't be with a women because that would only me unwise since I am not attracted to them. That would be a betrayal to both her and me. I'm not trying to betray or hurt anyone. But its hard reading articles like this knowing no hope will be found. I prayed to god for years. I tried to change myself. But nothing happened. I have now only grew more distant to the word of God. Why? Because I would be putting myself in mortal pain. I can't follow something that clearly condemns me. And if I do follow it..how will I do it? Its hard to say this. I don't want to leave the word behind. But the more I follow the less and lower my hope grows. I have read the bible in depth. I always thought god would forgive the sin no matter if you acted on it or not but all he wants is your belief in him,your trust,your deviation because god does state that the only unforgivable sin is NOT Believing in him and accepting him. He dosn't say if you act on your sin you will parish in this area of the bible. And if he did won't that make it impossible to go to heaven? God died on the cross for a reason. For our sins so we won't have to face judgment by sin. He judges by law. If he judged by sin we would all go to hell.
No matter what sin acted or not if god judged people by sin no hopr would be there. God loves all. I find it hard to belive how he says homosexuals should have their blood shed..but then claims he loves me? And claims he forgives all sin? It maked you feel like your the problem. I feel like I am. Because even though he says he forgives all sin through repentance, if your homosexual and engage in a homosexual relationship you are not forgiven. Instead you should face brutal punishment. It makes no sense to many.I know some may dissagree but it hurts to know that (even though the bible says the word is for everyone and ANYONE can receive salvation by following his word) he excludes this for homosexuals and homosexual relationships.
I had to continue my story on a separate comment due to the character limit. Im not wise but thats the best I can explain myself. Thank you for reading
I have one question. How is ignoring the fact that sin leads to death, eternal death, loving a person?
I wonder how many of you that are listing Bible verses and talking about what the Bible says have actually taken the time to get to know a gay person and really journey with them?? How many of you just spew words of hate and go on with your day without even a thought on how an individual might feel after reading the words in these comments! It's easy to talk about what is right and wrong until it becomes your personal reality and you are touched by it on a daily basis. If someone you would die for tells you that they are gay, you would not bang them over the heard with Bible verse and what God thinks. You would love them and live a life that is genuine and loving towards others. THIS is what we are called to do. IF homosexuality is a sin, then you better take a look at your own sin before you go pointing out others!
Æ I Just wanted to send you some internet hugs and love ❤️
I am in my 20 and straight. I grew up in church and am a Christian. I do believe that same sex marriages are a sin. Though I find my self now in situation were I face people who disagree with this view. I need gudence on how to deal with my moral and spiritual beliefs without offending others. Also I recently started watching a kids cartoon that openly repersents gay relationships. I like that the show repersents different body types and how to deal with judgment from others coming from on how one looks or where they come from.
Should I still watch a show like this? How should I live every day with people who I strongly disagree with?
Thank you for any help, young adult needing gudence.
As a transgender woman who is trying to navigate the Evangelical space, I thank you for this article. I have sat with too many parents of kids who have committed suicide because their parents, church, or community didn't embrace them and love them. I read Amber Cantorna's story of how her parents - her dad is an executive with Focus on the Family - still refuse to talk to her because she came out as Lesbian. Lives are being lost, and I HAVE to believe that no matter what, God values those lives so much more than being right or wrong on an issue.
One of the things I struggle with as a trans woman is trying to navigate where do I fit in? Where does the church hold to their truth? I am wanting to find community, believing that as I draw closer to God among others, He will show me and convict me if my decision to transition was in error. (I don't think it was.) At the same time, because the church doesn't see me as a woman, I have been forbidden from being involved in a smaller group setting, especially in women's ministry.
How does one navigate that? Where should grace in this go? On one hand, I get that the church would see me as male, but at the same time, if I cannot find community with other Christian women, (I'm not joining men's ministry) then where am I going to find the space outside of Sunday morning worship to plug in and learn about where God would have me be?
I'm so tired of "Christians " who hate the LGBTQ community. I'm not gay, but I have two gay men living in my house, a cousin who died from complications from HIV, and I have a lot of gay friends. I would rather hang out with them most of the time because they are genuine and more fun then the fake Christian's I know. To me being a person who believes in any God means excepting everyone for who they are and realizing that everyone is unique! I like or dislike people for who they are, not for their sexual orientation. Judge not not less ye be judged, it's not my job to judge anyone, that is God's job! I would have lost out on a lot if I didn't except people as people! I go to Pride every year, this year I went to 3 different cities, the thing that upset me the most is the Christian's that told me I was going to hell if I didn't repent and become straight, well I simply told the idiot's that they didn't know me and it's not their job to judge. I go to pride because I can be me and not be judged by anyone, it's a great celebration of people being themselves! I just hope and pray that people who don't even give LGBTQs a chance wake up and realize that they are missing out on friendships with people who are genuine. My friends son found out his son is gay and he won't except him nor will he talk to him, it breaks my heart because his son needs him, but he is a minister in a Christian church and the bible supposedly says it's a sin to be gay, I haven't found that anywhere in the bible, being Catholic and going to Catholic school I have read the bible several times. This is the 2018/2019 almost, it's time to just except people for who they are, not who they love, love us love and its beautiful! I don't get how people feel that you can cure a person who is gay, please wake up, it's not a disease nor is it contagious! Love thy neighbor and quit doing Gods job. My friend's son compared gays to gangs, sorry there is a huge difference between the two! Thank you for your time! Love us love!
Æ I encourage you to pray about discussing your same sex attraction with your parents and/or other trusted Christians, at some point and hopefully, if you decided to share your feelings with them, they will respond in love and grace. My son "came out" to us when he was 19 years old. We are what most would label a conservative Christian family. My first emotional responses were shock and heartbreak, but I was mainly heartbroken that he had lived with this secret for years and had not felt safe to share it with a living soul. Our immediate response was to tell him that we loved him no matter what even if we ended up not agreeing with his life choices. I encourage you to read Wesley Hill's blogs and his book "Washed and Waiting". It discusses the trials he has endured as a gay Christian, his spiritual journey and his eventual choice to e a celibate gay Christian and how he found value and love in Christ and in truthful relationships with others.
The old testament also calls for the stoning of adulterers but the new testament shows mercy. In John 8 the Jewish leaders brought Jesus a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery and told him that the law of Moses commanded them to stone such people so what do you say? Jesus replied that anyone who was without sin could cast the first stone. Since, they knew they weren't sinless, they all left. Then, Jesus told the adulteress to "go and sin no more".
to all offended by this article
Can you see how Caleb, the author, has guts to carefully and intelligently write out his thinking for good will and to support not only gay Christians but all in the church? I deal with the realities of this late day and much tainted with sin world as a single man of 50, never married. I'm also a sinner and struggle with being a celibate man, with all the good intentions of having the right lady to marry. Caleb reminds us not to judge gays, but really get to know them. And mentions to abstain before marriage to all singles gay or straight. Contentious views, as what I see in so many secular people AND in this article (I come from a family that can;t stand "Fundamentalist Christian Beliefs" with alot of hate brewing from Mom) and this reminds me of how satan is very alive in the minds of the public. Please consider everyone in this picture, including the love and grace coming from this author.
My family is going through this now .I and my parents are Christains ( I actually dont even like labeling myself as that lately) we live in a house hold where my sister was murderedbecause her boyfriend was dealing drugs and she was stealing them from her work .
I have her 2 daughters for last 7 yrs.
1 is married and her and her husband are satanists
1 niece has aspergers and is very promiscuous and belligerent.
My brother lives here to because he refuses to work and although 42 acts like hes 19.
His child lives here to she now he refuses to work or leave his room.
He has had a conversation with us all and was ok with us calling him by his female name and she he understood it takes time to adjust.
My parents are Christains ...they have put their beliefs aside to make sure all of us are ok.
But they have rules in their house.
No drugs .. No over drinking and parties.
No swearing ...and No premarital sex in their home.
Well my brothers kid has broken this with his gf.
And when called on it ..it became they are homophobic.
And not welcomed.
We ALL have the same rules .
He doesnt help hes lazy and so is his dad .
And when called on it ...they say they are homophobic.
They constantly throw the bible in my parents face.
My dad is 72 gets up at 4 am to go to work 5 days a week
My bro amd his kid sleep still noon or 1then play video games
They done pay rent or look after the cat or rats they brought to this house
But when called on it we are called homophobic
How can someone who shows so much love and careing and support reguardless of their beliefs be constantly thought of as wrong and homophobic.
I think his insecurities are why he gets so mad at them .
Hes been seltered his whole life .
He left his mother because she had rules and he didnt want to follow them.
And my brother lets him do what ever he wants.
So just because we believe same sex couples are wrong , we still can show .love and support ..but they have to see their beliefs are just as important as ours .
If we are not hurting anyone and we still show love why are we wrong all the time.
I appreciate reading everyone's comments as my husband and I are at the place where many of you are. My son came to us in November and told us he was bi-sexual. We then learned at Christmastime that he was in a homosexual relationship with a 38 year old man (our son is 21). He told us he has been struggling with same sex attraction since he was about 12. Although we acknowledge that these feelings are real and a struggle, that we believe comes from Satan, we have told him and showed him what the Bible says about homosexuality. We believe that there are many passages in the Bible that we, as humans, interpret because of the way they are written. For instance, the passage about being "unequally yoked." from 2 Corinthians 6:14. At one time in history, people "interpreted" that passage to mean people should not be married outside of their race. However, the issue of homosexuality is not something to be interpreted. The Bible is clear in many places. As I study the Bible and the culture when Jesus came and when the Bible was written, I can see how prevalent homosexuality was in the culture of that day. So now, my son is a christian (at least I know he prayed to ask Jesus to be his savior when he was younger). We have confronted him with his sin and shown him what God's Word says about this. He is not acknowledging it as sin and has no desire to seek God and what he says about it. So as Christian Parents, what do we do now. It's one thing to acknowledge it as a sin and a sin that you struggle with (we all have sins we struggle with on a daily basis) and another to say, "You were born that way" and ignore what God's Word so clearly states. Jesus said to the woman at the well, Go and sin no more. If she had left that place and chose to ignore what Jesus had said, even after being shown the truth, and continued in her sin, what would He have done/said? This is where my struggle remains.
As a mom of a child who confided in me about being gay, this was my response: I told my child that I was not the one to judge him. He knows about the Bible and that is between him and God. Even though I don't understand. Judging is also a sin.
As far as same-sex relationships this is probably the best article/discussion I have found on the internet to date.
I started my internet search today because of the Sunday morning church experience I had last Sunday. (My husband & I have recently relocated to a different city & are in the midst of looking for a church.). After we were seated I looked up and noticed two men seated, the one with his arm around the other. We soon realized this church was 'celebrating' loving the LGBT community. I would say the church was filled with between 1/3 to 1/2 of LGBT people. After singing a few worship songs my husband and I left. This church communicated to us that if we disagreed with any part of their 'tolerance' WE were intolerant, unloving & condemned.
I appreciated Linda Brown's comments (from May 19, 2016 at 11:48 AM). I find it (unfortunately) predictable that the author, Caleb Kaltenbach, appears quite defensive, and all too quick to dispel Ms. Brown's comments yet so tolerant, patient & 'loving' of all things LGBT. Mr. Kaltenbach Christ's love and compassion should be given to ALL not just the cultural group you personally identify with and choose to value.
My parents (btw both BIOLA grads) were victims of homosexuality. The profession I was in and the geographical location I live exposes me to many LGBT communities. In fact one of my closest work related friends was a lesbian.
Rarely have I found a meek homosexual. Other than the lovely lady I worked with, they are militant and intolerant of another's opinion. A few years ago we lived in a neighborhood with several houses with gay couples. One of the gentleman offered to help me stage my house for selling. He went above and beyond, rolling up his sleeves, so to speak, moving furniture up & down the stairs, etc. I was so grateful for his expertise & assistance. When he finished I asked if I could pray with him for his sister (she was recently institutionalized). His body stiffened but he said yes. My husband, our neighbor and I all held hands & bowed our heads to pray. I thanked God for this man & his love for his community & family, etc. When I finished we hugged & he did his best to avoid us until our final move day.
I say all this to say the members of that church last Sunday would never know how my husband & I personally shared Christ's love to a LGBT 'community'. They only judged us because we walked out of their church.
I know all too well that God's love can be very tough at times. As mentioned in the article there is that tension between grace & truth. But a more pertinent word, I think, is balance. The LGBT is not a balanced community. And just because they are off balance we do not over compensate in order to accommodate their bigotry.
We should pursue love, obey God's Word & share His gospel message to everyone we come in contact with. One group should not receive special attention over another just because they demand it.
This is something that I have struggled with for a very long time. I am 27, I have struggled with same sex attraction for as long as I can remember. I have never told anyone I know in person about it for fear of rejection and well...some of the things I've seen in posts above.
I can only give my experience and what I've heard from other friends who are gay. I went to a religious school for the entire time I went to school where being gay was outright banned, even having a parent that is gay is grounds for expulsion according to their rulebook. It was used once while I was there. I began noticing these feelings when I was maybe 11 or 12, the same way guys normally feel about girls, I just never felt that way, but I did notice myself feeling that towards guys. For, my entire life since then I've tried to repress that, I've tried to change that, I've prayed, I've avoided porn, I've done all kinds of things but when it comes down to it nothing has ever worked. This is a story I've heard over and over and over and over and over again in friends that I've really talked to that are also gay. From my own experience and from the experience of so many I know I simply do not believe it can be a choice that can be turned on or off. There was no trauma, there was no deviancy, I probably found out about porn at a later age than almost anyone I know, there was nothing in my background that would have been a cause for this. This story is similar for not only so many I Know, but probably millions of other people.
What is has done is cause extreme amounts of fear and anxiety. When you're constantly being told you will go to hell for feeling this way, and having no way of even forcing yourself to change it, yea you can be celibate which technically thus far I've done but that alone can cause mental health issues. I struggle to see any way at all that this a choice, I dont really believe its somethign thrown into all these people by the devil, and I dont think God is making a mistake with all these people. I've done a lot of research into maybe mistranslations from the original versions of the Bible used to todays versions, but thats a whole other rabbit hole to go down.
Scott, I am not sure where you see hate. I only see disagreement. Saying that being gay is not WRONG and it's not people trying to be right. Hatred is when you abusively call the person names and wish ILL to them because they are not doing the will of God. Love also involves CORRECTION and the Holy Spirit is showing me that you think there is nothing wrong with being gay and support the LIFESTYLE and are angry with others for speaking the truth in love. Sorry but when you tell someone that darkness is light, that's NOT love. Please check YOURSELF and practice what you preach. God bless.
Gods Word is all that matters, not your feelings and what YOU think is right. Homosexuality is not wrong because I say so, it is wrong because God says so! Calling a true Christian a bigot, is calling Jesus a bigot!
Wow! Let me first start out by saying thank you for sharing that with us, and you hit the nail on the head, that Satan inserts his evil thoughts into our heads for us to stunble upon and unfortuetly sometimes fall. Pray, with all your might Pray! I will Pray for him also, as well as my own kids, even though nothing like that has happened to me yet, with the way of the world today guiding our children away from God, we have such a huge fight on our hands. Romans 6:23 for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord!
In Genesis when God created man, He saw that it was good and He said, "Be fruitful and multiply" So there are reasons for God's desire for a man to be with a woman. Men with men and women with women cannot multiply. Simply put, those on the other side of this debate could ponder this: If my parents had chosen homosexuality prior to my conception, I would not be here today. So by the grace of God your parents were brought together and you were a result of that union. If not, your voice would not be around to even be heard. Personally, I'm grateful to God and my parents that I was a result of 'being multiplied" in a way God designed it to be.
I am tired of the typical contemporary worship as spiritual “fluff” that all of the churches in our area have. Recently, I started attending an Episcopal church where the worship is reverent and the meat of God’s Word is in the worship. I don’t believe it is God’s plan for there to be same sex marriage. In no way, shape or form do I consider myself better. I am a sinner saved by grace and my heart like every person is wicked and I struggle to repent and love the Lord my God with my whole heart. I am not a martyr when I say I don’t support gay marriage but “accept “ people. I love everyone. I want to worship God!! Is it possible for me to disagree with gay marriage and still stay at same same church and develop friendship with EVERYONE? Thanks for listening.
Scott, I am not sure where you see hate. I only see disagreement. Saying that being gay IS WRONG is not people trying to be right. Hatred is when you abusively call the person names and wish ILL to them because they are not doing the will of God. Love also involves CORRECTION and the Holy Spirit is showing me that you think there is nothing wrong with being gay and support the LIFESTYLE and are angry with others for speaking the truth in love. Sorry but when you tell someone that darkness is light, that's NOT love. Please check YOURSELF and practice what you preach. God bless.
I am tired of the "Christian" church accepting LGBT lifestyle as if it IS biblical to do so. Which bible do you people read? God condemns it because it's WRONG! Don't like it? Take it up with GOD. Telling someone that a cyanide milkshake is good for their health IS NOT love. Get a clue people. Try teaching the TRUTH in love instead of saving face because you don't want to be the most unpopular person in the room. Being gay is SINFUL, UNNATURAL and WRONG. End of story.
I’m a bisexual man, and honestly it isn’t a choice. I find both men and women sexually attractive, and admit to desiring to have both at once. It’s natural I feel this way, and no matter what I do—I’ll never be able to change it. At the time, I have a bf, but sleep with women as well on the side! I have accepted my love and desire for beautiful men and women as natural! It just is for me. Furthermore, I’m not hurting anyone... as I just keep it in my house, that I pay taxes for! How is that hurting anyone? Why is pleasure always a sin??? I don’t believe sex is a sin period! It’s a form of natural communication and art. God doesn’t condemn you for something natural!
Thank you rev Caleb for throwing so much light on this topic. I thank the Lord that you were saved despite your background . All glory belong to Jesus. However, I must say that it is better to pitch your tent on one side. As you may have noticed, the initial responders to your teaching were people in the LGBTQ , and they still found what you wrote offensive to them. So in d end you have issues with both their community and the Christian community. To cut long story short, best thing to do is to call a spade a spade! If we fail to call sin sin we would not be doing the will of God. We are not afraid to preach to a murderer, a thinker or even an adulterer, why should we be afraid to preach to the homosexuals etc? What the LGBTQ community wants is for us as Christians to accept their own rights/ convictions and throw ours in the bin. They are not okay with us accepting them and not approving them. It’s not fair on us Christians. We are being bullied. But God is on our side. In the end, we would see who was right. For now, we should continue with Mark 16:15. We should go out to preach the gospel, tell all sinners to repent, tell them that Jesus died because of them. God would help us. We didn’t write the bible, it’s God’s word and his standard, we human beings behave as if we just showed on earth. And I must say, strong people in the LGBTQ community have deep disregard for God. If you have such disregard for him why do you still want to come to him , force yourself on him. You have the freedom to be a Moslem or an aethist. It’s not fair that you come to church and dcensor what must be taught or not taught. It’s not fair. I love anyone still in the sin of homosexuality with the love of Jesus. Because for you was Jesus sent to the Earth; he doesn’t want anyone to perish. I admonish you to open your hearts to Jesus, he will come in to show you mighty things you knew not. Jesus loves you!
So my mom and I are both russian and my mom bekbg rather traditional hates lgbt+ in general. My dad who is American is against it but not as much as my mom. I'm not very fond of lgbt+ but if people decide that's what they choose I don't mind. One of my good friends told me around last year that she is gay(or lesbian cause she's a girl) I told my dad cause I knew I couldn't just straight up tell my mom and I kept the secret from my mom since I few days ago. I decided to tell her about my friend being gay and how all my other friends are obsessed with gay anime ships. This immediately got my mom to dislike my friend even though she's met my friend and had no problems with her before(apart from her being loud) she also told me she doesn't want me being close friends with her because "if I hang out with a gay person it'll be like a sin as well cause you wouldn't hang out with say a murderer while knowing they are a murderer" I'm also thinking that maybe my friendisn't really gay but that's how she was raised because her older sister(now brother) is transgender and her cousin is also gay. I don't want to not be friends with her just cause she's gay but my mom doesn't want me being close friends with her. This year she also ended up not being in any of my classes and not my lunch either and my mom said this was God's way of telling me I shouldn't be closr friends with her. I'm not sure what to do at this point and could really use some advice.
You are a bigot. You are a pathetic example of both a Christian and a human being. This is just "love the sin, hate the sinner" dressed up in prettier language. You have no business being a pastor. It's jerks like you who contribute to the alarming number of suicides of LGBTQ youth. You are also an extremely ignorant person who is using purposefully mistranslated sections of the Bible to justify your bigotry. You are nothing but Trump trash. I am an angry man and it's because of human garbage bullies like you.
I just have a quick question. Is it okay, as a christian, to call a transgender person by their pronouns. Like for example, I have a transgender friend who is a girl but identifies as a boy. Is it okay for me to use, he and him, or does that mean that I am agreeing with the sin, or I'm basically saying it's okay? I just want to make sure I do what God wants me to do. Do I keep using her and she?
I have a gay granddaughter she has a gay friend
They stay at my house will God judge me for that
Will I go to hell for that I am a Christian and going to church
Please give me a comment on this I'm really concerned about it the place like me some feedback on it my comment is above this one
The truth is, we are talking about homosexuality here, a thing that God Himself has condemned as an abomination, a thing that God Himself uses to punish and condemn those who via their unrighteousness suppress His truth. And yet people in The Church are wringing their hands on how God's people should handle those who insist upon living in this particularly wretched sin. It is clear to me that none of this filth has any place in the church, being revealed before our children as if God has not cursed it with His strongest condemnation.
Leaders who permit themselves to be lured into giving support for this behavior in the guise of being "loving," are in error. We need not be mean to gays. We ought not call them names. But we ought never so much as even risk treating homosexuality as something other than serious sin. God's people have no business treating any community defined by sin as something that they must figure out how to negotiate. God is clear. This sin and all others ought to be condemned, and we are to teach ourselves and our children how to perpetually flee sin - and not be mealy-mouthed about it.
I think the process of dealing with sin is not understood or maybe it is and is refused. I have read several of these comments and hear those that choose the counter life stile LGBT community say. "Those Christians this and that don't accept the way we are. Well personally you are no different then all of us Christians, we are all sinners some of us have "accepted Christ as our personal savior". What dose this mean? We are all sinners the LGBT and those that are not gay, there is no difference here. The difference with being saved is that we have turned form our sinful lives and allow our Lord and savior to guide and work in our lives to make us more like Him. See, God created us with free will, we can choose to live lies we can choose to do bad things. These things are called SIN and we all have sinned and fall short of what god wanted for our lives (why he knows all and knows whats best for us, safe for us) So he cast us out of the garden because of our sin and our sin brought on hard times Death! Sin grew so much that God had to destroy his creation with a flood. (God is so loving that he did this to save others from eternal sin/ Death), if we live around sin we tend to minimize it and accept it causing us to form a mental state of no return at some point , our pride gets in the way) After the flood, sin began to grow yet some people chose to be followers of our Lord, striving to live for Him. Sin grew even among his chosen people the Jews. God loves us so much that he sent the ultimate sacrifice (Blood had to be shed when Adam and Eve sinned and blood had to be continued to be shed to cover sin.) So God sent his Son to die on a Cross for all of our sins yours and mine! All we are asked to do is ask for the free gift of life by asking for forgiveness of our sins and turning form them and place our faith in Jesus's sacrifice of sin. After doing this we all must change and God works with in us showing us how to change and strive to be more like Him. Yet we allow pride to keep us from making this one choice and by doing so we will die and spend eternity In hell ( this is a place absent of God) So you see you can say you Christians don't love us or, that we hate you and ask why Christians can't accept the way you are well we Christians love you so much that we do not want you to live in you sin any more than we live in ours! We want you to be "SAVED" from your sin so you don't have to live in total absence from God and so you can live in "Heaven with us! the challenge is we both have to put away our pride and humble our selves to be able to accept Christ's gift. It's our free will, God will not make you change, He will stand at your heart 's door and knock and if you let HIm in He will come in and begin a wonderful work in your life. Yes you will change your thoughts on your desires and you will what to be more like JESUS.
How did we end up fixated by this issue. Their LBGTQ lifestyle is not the only sin they are guilty of. God does not want Christians standing outside Masa restaurant NYC handing out tracts to the rich patrons that enter. Why do I say that..do the rich not deserve our love and understanding just like everyone else? Yes of course they do. But we are not called for that purpose. We are called to help the poor the helpless the vulnerable in our society. LBGTQ do not fit that mould. And what happens when we combine helping the poor and vulnerable with teaching the gospel. We will find not only LBGTQ people but also the rich who are genuinely wrestling about their lifestyle will come to church seeking answers. And we should welcome them. We are not in charge of saving people or getting them to church. God asks a few simple things 1 help the poor and most vulnerable in our society 2. Preach the good news and 3 be ready to welcome the result of his Holy Spirit in bringing people to repentance.
Can people realize that not everyone believes in God?
This article is for Christians and for people who want to become Christian who struggle with homosexuality. They want to leave this particular sin behind because they are asked to do so by God and not because it’s fun. This is the case for all sin in the life of a Christian. It does not apply to non-Christians or people who want to remain homosexual. You are discussing a separate reality.
No one is trying to trick or manipulate anyone. The Christian seems to abandon a natural prejudice in order to be open to all. What’s wrong with that? This is not to deny that many Christians are too immature to overcome their prejudice and except people in any life situation.
In the Christian worldview, this behavior is wrong whether or not it is fun. What God asks of us in the Bible is extreme, it is not supposed to be fun. It is not supposed to make you feel good. It is supposed to set you free from bondage that controls every aspect of your life and brings you only doom and sadness because it does not serve your soul. If you don’t agree with that, please just go on living your life. Christianity hopes to bring freedom to those who want freedom in this way. If you don’t it is useless to go on discussing the things in this article. It does not apply.
If the only way folks can tell that you're Christian is by what you have or what you hate, you're doing it wrong.
Homosexuality - like heterosexuality and bisexuality - is a state, condition or orientation. As such, they are morally neutral. The words homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality never appear in the Bible because they were coined in 1892 by Charles Gilbert Chaddock in a translation of Richard von Krafft-Ebing's study on sexual practices.
And this is the point: Even if one agrees that the Biblical descriptions of carnality do in fact correlate to our present-day understanding through the use of those terms, nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality itself condemned - only its practice. Nowhere in the Bible is heterosexuality itself condemned - only its practice outside of Biblical marriage.
Failure to distinguish clearly between the state of homosexuality and its acts - as most of the comments clearly demonstrate - is sloppy thinking at best and homophobic at worst.
real gody love is telling a person that there living in sin being gay is a moral sin your feeling have nothing to do with deffention of marrage is a man @ women god lay the law not man its call liberal christion when you put your opinon @thouth your triadtion @ the waythe world is living before gods word .they say its in love thats not a gody love to let a person live in sin is not gody love its world love.if you truey love your gay friend you would tell them the truth.@ if you truly are a christion you will hon gods word .@ not mans evil ways.you can love your gay friend but love them in a gody way.
For what it's worth, I think the traditional Christian's approach to 'confidently correcting' the homosexual has earned him the hate label he so wants to avoid. From telling the gay that his orientation is a 'choice' he made, (was his own hetero orientation a 'choice' as well?) to saying someone is either 'born a man or woman' (ignoring the 1.7 percent of newborns who are delivered as intersex, with competing sets of sexual genitalia - they're allowed to determine their gender, the result of a 'broken world'. ). All of this comes from a person who has never faced the conflicts of the homosexual, and so of course has the ring of hypocrisy. If instead of coming with the arrogance that says, "I need to correct you in love', come with humility and meekness and say, "I see what the bible appears to say about same sex relationships and I believe it to be God's direction for our lives, but I can't imagine what you have to deal with having a natural desire for the same sex". The fact that you would actually try to put yourself in the place of the person you are talking to would go great lengths toward reducing the appearance of hatred. And given the fact that the long-term conversion rate of homosexuals is very, very small, and the universal demise of the 'ex-gay' ministries of the '70's and '80's, the confidence you display when you describe the gay's misunderstanding of his own sexuality is a bit misplaced. Anyone on either side of this argument who struggles with the reality of the world situation and how to best handle it in a Godly manner has my respect, anyone who confidently spouts the traditional Christian view and elevates it right up there with Scripture itself without dealing with the issue that much of sexuality is broken today is just fueling the rift that has alienated gays from Christianity. All who would live Godly lives in Christ will be persecuted, but not all who are persecuted are being so because they are obedient to God's calling.
This whole article is condescending. As a member of the LGBT community, I cannot stand being told: "I love you but I don't agree with your lifestyle". Honestly, what about people who break all the other rules in the Bible? The discrimination and hatred that the community faces by Christians is deadly.
you are an actual dumbass, I dont agree with binge drinking at parties but I dont hate people who do it. suck it up not everyones gonna agree with your choices.
Since the only thing that seems important to Christians in today’s world is homosexuality, which seems to always come from Timothy 1:8 - 10, why do you seem to stand for the other things stated? Where are the article titles,
“How Should Christians Respond to Friends or Family Members that have idols?”
“How Should Christians Respond to Friends or Family Members that are adulting?”
“How Should Christians Respond to Friends or Family Members that have stolen something?”
“How Should Christians Respond to Friends or Family Members that are greedy?”
“How Should Christians Respond to Friends or Family Members who drink a lot?”
“How Should Christians Respond to Friends or Family Members that speak badly?”
Many of you are close minded. If you are a straight man, could you imagine having intercourse with another man? I didn’t think so. For you, it wasn’t a choice. What makes you think gay people could just do it that easily? They look at men the same you look at women, and that’s how it is, and it doesn’t change on either side. Stop using the Bible’s words as an excuse to hate. Jesus is not about that. Worry about your own lying, sexually immoral self before you judge others. Do you think you are in a place to judge? You are not. Only god is. Many Christians are very close-minded and hypocritical and I’m glad I don’t declare myself religious anymore.
The gospel message taught by Jesus is this: "In all things to unto others as you would have them do unto you." That's it. The doctrine that homosexuality is wrong is the result of human ignorance and fear. It may be in the Bible, but it is not compatible with the Gospel of Christ, because it does real harm to real people. People who truly want to follow Jesus of Nazareth will choose to accept gay and lesbian people in their lives, and not expect those with homosexual orientations to either a) hate their God-given homosexuality and choose to be celibate for their entire lives, or b) enter into phony marriages with someone of the opposite sex.
I'm 27 years old and a gay guy. My parents are and siblings are on my neck to show them my girlfriend. How do I convince them to wait? Please help.
First, Greetings to all and God Bless. To all who have posted here essentially speaking to the inherent sin in homosexuality, I assume you have no homosexual inclinations. And to that I say God bless that you were able to avoid yet one more of many possible struggles in this life. Drug abuse/addiction, heterosexual promiscuity, lust, adultery, larceny, jealousy, lying, blasphemy, treating others in less than loving ways. Just to name a small fraction of all possibilities. Further, you’re able to facilitate an earthly journey for God’s beautiful children. Whom you will call your children. To those I would ask, did you chose that heterosexual lifestyle over a homosexual lifestyle? Or did heterosexuality come naturally? I would guess the later. And again, truly; God Bless! But I will also point to John 8:7. Further, I believe in God, by God, all things are possible. So instead of using all this precious energy to “indict” homosexuality. Let us all pray to the Lord for understanding. And for the healing of our brothers and sisters who may have been lead astray by the great deceiver. Let us pray they are healed so any particular form of sin can be easily avoided. Let us pray to Jesus for perfect clarity on this issue. So it can be dealt with on the human level with spiritual wisdom. Instead of a debate on whom should or shouldn’t be aloud to enter a church.
I probably need to read your book. I'm here because as a Mom and believer found out last night with an email from my daughter that she's declaring herself as a lesbian at age 19; however, she's saying she had some idea since she was about eleven. I love how you mentioned we're a sex obsessed culture. Another problem is we don't celebrate celibacy as we should as Christians. I raised my daughter in church, but the church has almost nothing to encourage those who are single. I was a single Mom and in my struggles found more support with girlfriends than the church. The church doesn't need to adapt to the culture, but it needs to get deeper into God's word. I thought about it, if those who didn't feel attraction to the opposite sex, would just not focus on that as an issue or thoughts of homosexuality, but as a way to focus on the Lord. My heart was torn apart and I'd love to fall in love with a man. The problem is man disappoints, I mean anyone, friends, family or church can disappoint, so why not put our focus, love and energy in relationship with the living God, our Creator who knows and loves us so much to die for us and serve the Lord. I am going to pray for my daughter and yet I haven't said anything to respond to her long note of being vulnerable in her email to me. I am still not sure what to say, but I love you no matter what. I want to guide her to stick with God's word, but she's read so many books growing up that she would get at library as an avid reader with the LBGT folded in. She always seemed to show attraction to men, but I think she may be truly confused, brainwashed or influenced by the spirit of the air, not the spirit of God. She has a rebelliousness to her and with more time in the Word with a true hunger and thirst for righteousness I think her way could be made straight. Feel free to share with me any suggestions you may have to relate with my daughter with her recent sharing.
Ray, if Jesus said this to you what scripture backs up what He has told you?
I was messed up in my childhood. Yes it’s sad how people stomp on the gay community creating an even wider divide between the church and LGBT community. No one wants to hang with people who condemn them beating them down all the time dirty snickering looks!
We are so quick to look the other way from straight couples living together not saying anything or condemning their sin! Not one of us was given the responsibility of policing people and sin!
Can you Christian; picture Jesus sitting at the camp fire gossiping about Bill & Johnny with his disciples putting them figs on the spot pointing fingers.
My sin is no greater than the next sin, as we know God is Love and love covers a multitude of sin!
Now if your hell fire and brimstone preaching/teaching don’t skip the sexual sin part to Accommodate or pacify anyone God sees God knows in all my reading and rereading the Bible I only see Jesus in his righteous anger made a whip and started cleaning the Temple he was gentle and meek he knew things like the woman at the well but he did not judge of condemn her. We don’t throw out the Harlot the John The tax fraud or the bubblegum thief!
To teach and preach one must teach the truth in love not sparing one sin to be hid or skipped over because you may hurt someone’s feelings! We r all broken one way or another we r all sinners we sin a lot not knowingly Coveting un-forgiveness, Gluttony, here’s a good one gossiping, anyway it’s sad how sin has opened us up to judging others Critically of one sinner more then other sinners!
All Christians need re-schooled in loving our Enemies! Now for the hired preacher or true disciple of Christ if they are not teaching in love and truth they probably are not getting Persecuted then your really not a disciple of Christ your only playing the part and the truth does not live in you! It’s not the word of God your preaching or teaching! It’s only a watered down sugar coated sham. There is a place for you in eternity! God bless you all and make you better people!
"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" Matthew 22:39.
That verse basically sums it all. There is the answer directly from Jesus. We need to be kind, loving, caring people. We may not agree with a person's beliefs, but we don't need to kill them over it either. I found out a person I was talking to in my classes was bisexual. Was I rude or judgemental to that person? No. You can disagree with a person and still respect them for who they are. That's how God wants us to be.
So for all of those that are saying that 'gays should burn in hell' or 'God hates gays', I think you're the ones who need Jesus to help you.
I knew I was gay as early as age 5, but definitely by age 8. I didn't know what to call it at the time. Over the years I've held positions of leadership in the church, worked for and was paid by the church, was in Campus Crusade for Christ. I tried dating off and on miserably, never happy and never successful. The church did me wrong and told me I was going to hell for how I was born. What a miserable lot in life. At 50, I have been partly ostracized by previous good friends who weren't actually friends. I'm happily in a gay relationship. I previously developed intense anxiety living a false life. That is now haunting me but subsiding slowly. To all the haters, racists, and homopbobes reading this.... I just don't care anymore. I'm gay. You can't do anything about it. I can't do anything about it. But I'm happy. And if you want to make yourself feel better putting others down your entire life, so be it. But in the end, we'll all be dead and it won't have mattered. There is no proof of any sort of God. But I do have proof of people just wanting to live and let live. So do what you must with the stick in your own eye before you criticize anyone else.